Aileen: [00:00:00] Thank you everyone for joining today’s episode of the, How Did They Do It? Real Estate podcast. We are your hosts Seyla and Aileen and today’s guest, we have Brian Briscoe. Brian Briscoe is the cofounder of the multifamily investing firm Four Oaks Capital, which currently has $7.5m in Assets Under Management.  He is also the host of the exciting new podcast “Diary of an Apartment Investor”, which brings an experienced and aspiring investor together on each episode. He is an active duty Marine lieutenant colonel stationed at the pentagon and will retire in 2021 after 20 years of service.  So very excited to have you today on our show, Brian.

And first of all, we would like to say thank you for your service and congratulations on your upcoming retirement.

Brian: [00:00:37] Thanks very much. I appreciate you guys inviting me on the show and, I’m excited for this. It’s gonna be fun.

Aileen: [00:00:42] So can you please tell our listeners a little bit more about your background and just how you got started in real estate investing?

Brian: [00:00:48] Today’s actually a very influential day in my history. It’s September 11th. And 19 years ago,  I was a graduate student.  I wanted to be a college professor. I was also a reservist. I joined the reserves to help myself be a little more well-rounded.

You go to college, then to graduate school. I was exercising my brain a lot, but, not a lot of other stuff. September 11th happened and it really made me rethink things. You know, I was already a reservist and President George W. Bush got on the national television and said, we’re calling up the reserves.

I started thinking I’m like, I’m a reservist, so I guess, I guess I’m going to be going to war here soon. And the more I started thinking about it, the more I wanted to just to take things into my own hands, instead of waiting for the President or the Secretary of Defense to say, Hey, reservist, you’re coming up.

 So I decided to take things into my own hands and go active duty. Incidentally, I still have a letter from that graduate school saying that I could go back at any time. It actually says, when my tour with the Marines is done, but, I still have that letter and I had never intended on, spending, 19 years and change in the Marine Corps.

But, there’s something about the service that really appealed to me, working for, you know the security of the country. I’ve really enjoyed, most of my time in the Marines Corp, or I wish I could say all my time, but I think, there’s been some difficult times too, but along the way, I’d say about 15 years ago, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and that really got me thinking about finances, about, doing a little bit more than what I was doing.

And,  I remember Rich Dad, Poor Dad talks about commercial real estate, and Robert Kiyosaki talks about his path and he talks about doing commercial real estate and talks about 1031 exchanges and things like that.

And I remember thinking, Oh my gosh, that sounds complicated. I can’t possibly do that. And, Yeah, I’m embarrassed to say that my answer at the time was start buying saving bonds.

There was a program through the Marine Corps to start buying savings bonds and that’s what I first started doing. And I really started thinking more and I’m like, I move every two to three years. As long as I’m going to be in the Marine Corps, I’ll move every two to three years.

And so I started thinking I can do single family. I can figure out how to buy a house for myself. It’s not that hard and most people do it. And then when I moved, I’ll just rent it out to somebody, So that ended up being my bid for success was, a masking, a single family portfolio and I didn’t put a lot of horsepower behind it, I just figured out how to buy it, lived in it for a couple of years and I figured it all worked out magically. Anyway, fast forward, 10 years later, I had a handful of single family houses.

And I think I was making a couple hundred dollars a month total when you put all the maintenance expenses in and everything else that was coming, I’m just like this, I’ve got a lot of equity. I had six figures equity in a couple of different properties.

I’m thinking, but I’m only making 200 bucks a month. What’s wrong. why is this not working like I thought it would? And I started researching other methods. I’m fascinated by real estate. And, my net worth jumped a ton, but I wasn’t looking for a net worth as much as I was looking for cashflow.

Aileen: [00:03:43] Were you managing those properties yourself?

Brian: [00:03:46] We did a little bit of both, one property we had with the same property manager the entire time.  One property in my hometown. We went back and forth between self-managing and having someone else manage, so it was a mixture.

We had one property near a Marine base and, I can rent to the Marines, that’s easy. The one in my hometown, one of my good friends, had a period where they wanted to rent for a year and, so we self-managed. When that happened, they actually lived there for two and a half years.

So yeah, we self managed at various points and, sometimes from halfway across the world, but, when we felt we would have too difficult of a time self-managing we went with professional management, and, with single family home with professional management is difficult.

Our rent points were, $1,200, $1,500, $1,800 a month, and there’s only so much a property manager is going to do for 10% of that. So 120 bucks, there’s only so much a property manager’s going to do for that $120 paycheck. They’re not going to put as much attention into it as you want them to, ever.

And, I dunno, I think a lot of times it was actually better when we managed it though. Sometimes it was a big time suck for us, but, so end of the day, had to really rethink what we were doing.  I started listening to some multifamily podcasts, started reading books about multifamily.

Now, like I said, I had researched many different real estate methods and  kept on coming back to multifamily. I’m like, it’s residential. I mean, technically it’s not residential, but it’s where people live. It’s something that I understand. People need a place to live. It’s a fundamental human need to have shelter and to have a secure place to live.

So there’s  always going to be demand for that, and it’s something that’s fairly easy to understand. I’ve rented, half a dozen different places in the last 20 years, I understand coming in as a renter and I understand, being a property manager.

So the barrier to entry was a lot lower for multifamily than it would have been for like retail or industrial space.  But, there’s just a lot of things that appeal to me, that the fact that you can get a bank to pay for a significant portion of an investment is amazing.

You can’t go to the bank and say, Hey, I want to buy, $4 million in stocks. Can I get a $3 million loan? They’re not going to do that, but you can do it with an investment property, and the leverage is there. And that’s, that’s one of the things that originally made real estate appealed to me was the fact that with the single family homes, the first one I bought, I put $3,000 down. This is, pre-crash where lending was easy and loose. I put $3,000 down on that house. 10 years later, I walked away with six figures in my back pocket. The next year I put, $15,000 down on a house and walked away with 10 times that much. Eight years later, and the leverage that on a single family houses is still there with multifamily.

So that definitely appealed to me. Anyway, I decided that, multifamily would be my ticket and, so sitting, two years ago from now. So, right now, like I said, I’ve been in the Marine Corps in 19 years. I’ll retire in about a year depending on how much time off I take.

But, end of the day, two years ago, I had just moved to the DC area, and I realized for the first time, this could be my last duty station, and I started thinking. Wow. I need to do something.  I need to prepare. I need to be ready for that transition, because, yes, I will get a pension, but the pension is going to be about, a quarter of what my full take home of what my pay and benefits are right now.

Getting a big pay cut is how I looked at it. Yeah, I put the date on the calendar, two years ago. And that date is October 31st, 2021 is going to be my last day on active duty. They’d let you take your leave in conjunction with that. So technically, my last day in uniform will be in August next year, but I put that date on the calendar and I said, okay, that is the date by when I need to have enough stuff going on in a multifamily business to be able to pay for all our living expenses, to be able to maintain the standard of living that we have.  I have a countdown and right now we’re at 327 days until till that last day in uniform comes, and don’t get, don’t get the wrong idea.

That’s to help me focus on the goal. It’s not because I hate the Marine Corps. I think some people get that impression, but it’s, to help me focus on the goal. I have 328 days, to get to where I want to be, which is a multifamily business that is paying all my bills. Anyway, two years ago I took stock where I was sitting and I thought, I need help.

So I think I was looking for three things simultaneously. I was looking for apartment deals. I was looking for people who wanted to invest and I was looking to build a team of some sort, and,  bought into a mentoring program and that helped phenomenally and, ended up finding a couple of partners. Interestingly enough, we found out that we were actually competing on a deal and, we had met each other in forums.

We had talked on the phone a couple of times, and then one day we found out we were competing on the same deal. We were both prepped, both ready to put an offer in. And, I picked up the phone and called this guy and at the end of the conversation, he’s just like, Hey Brian, I like you.  I think we should collaborate and cooperate. Instead of competing and I was just like, you know what? You’re right. so that’s, basically, checking the box for team building. I’m like, there we go. We got a team, and, so partnered with Eric there, And he had his longtime friend, Brian Mallin already as business partner.

So for me, it was buy one partner, get two free sale. And it’s worked out phenomenally since. Amazingly they’re great people. about a month or two later, we got our first deal under contract, super excited about it. But once again, we sat down and took stock of our situation and we’re like, okay, we’ve got to raise X amount, And the conversation was like, Eric, how much do you think you can raise? You put a dollar amount. Okay. Brian, how much do you think you can raise dollar amount? I think I can raise this amount and we were short, so we looked for one more person to help us and, that was the fourth person in who’s now part of Four Oaks Capital. So long story, but, I knew my Marine Corps career would eventually come to an end and, I knew I had to do something to plan for it otherwise. Maybe I’d stick around for too long, and it’s hard, it’s hard on the family moving every two to three years, breaks my heart sometimes, watching my kids, in each one of those transitions, it’s just like, you know, we picked them up out of a really good situation. They had friends, they had a lot of good things going on and it’s just Hey kids, guess what?  We’re moving. So say goodbye to all your friends. And, we’ve done that one too many times. And yeah, so I realized I didn’t want to keep on doing that indefinitely and, real estate ended up being my, my fallback my preparation.

Seyla: [00:10:16] Awesome. So Brian, first of all, like Aileen mentioned earlier.

Thank you so much for your service. And then, just want to go back and ask about when you first jumped in and discovered multifamily investing. Did you start out as an LP or did you just jump in as a GP?

Brian: [00:10:32] I had a couple of opportunities to do LP and you know, I almost did it. There was a local syndication group that, you know, two of the members are local and, I was tempted and part of me sometimes wishes that I did. The syndication game is expensive.

You know, there’s a little, a lot of upfront costs, and I had a finite bank account. And so I looked at, most syndications have a $50,000 minimum and if you want to be a syndicator, you also have to have some money for that upfront stuff. And I was still looking for partners, so I didn’t, because I wanted to make myself as attractive to other people as possible and, coming in and saying, Hey, let’s partner. And Oh, by the way, I can take care of earnest money. I can take care of, a lot of the risks capital, I’ve got enough money in the bank and banks require you to have a certain amount of liquidity. And so I chose to keep the liquidity instead of investing passively, because I didn’t know who I was going to partner with and I didn’t know what they would be able to bring to the table. Contrast that with one of my partners, I’ve got, collectively, my three other partners are passively invested in, 800 or so units.

I’m not sure what the unit count is, but, roughly 12 different syndications and I think it’s a solid way to do things. I just chose a different way of going.

Seyla: [00:11:50] Got it. And also you mentioned that you joined a mentorship program. Would you be able to elaborate a little bit more of how a mentorship program can help you succeed in the real estate syndication business?

Brian: [00:12:02] It was the Michael Blank program and, he had a big event when I moved here that I signed up for and I saw a lot of people there and, very clever marketing tool. All the mentorship students have a little tag on their name tag saying that they were mentor students. And I started noticing that and I started seeing things.

It just started clicking. I think the benefits are, I was assigned to a coach who has, 1200, 1500 units, so he’s already done everything that I want to do. He’s come full circle on a couple of deals, bought things, fixed them up, sold them and done that several times.

So one, one thing about it is you have some experience looking over your shoulder, and, we would have, one or two times a month calls where I tell them what I was doing. And he just said, Hey, look, this is what you need to be focusing on right now.

So for me, that was a huge time saver. And part of the reason I did it was, I looked at the calendar and I had three years. I’m like, wow, three years to make up a six figure salary, I can’t screw around. So the mentor really helped with that.  You can get the same education out of buying books, you know, and I’ve, I’ve actually got, a couple of syndication books within arm’s reach right now.

You can get a really good education reading the books. These programs, a lot of mentorship programs have, better products than you’ll find in a book.  They’re a little more thorough, some more hands on type stuff that you can’t get in a book or a podcast. And I think the third thing that those key is, the other people, because there’s lots of other people that are mentor students that are, in programs in various shapes and sizes, but, I tell you that, I met Eric, who I met him in a forum.  It was the forum through Michael Blank. So it was Michael Blank’s forum where I met him. That’s where we realized that we were competing on the same property and that’s where we decided to come together. So I think having good people and like minded people who are pursuing the same type of thing as you are, is also very beneficial.

Now once again, you can find all those things in other places and do it on the cheap side, that’s what Eric did. Eric was not a mentoring student, he was just, in the forums a lot. For me, I decided to, just take a chunk of the money that I have sitting in reserve, apply it towards mentoring and I looked at it as an accelerant. I knew that I would be able to do it by myself. I knew I had the capacity. I knew I had the drive. I knew I had everything you need to succeed in the business.  I just want to be able to do it faster and for me, that was the way to do it.

Seyla: [00:14:27] I agree. And, having a mentor, watching over you, especially someone who has the experience and, walking you through and giving you the blueprints and making sure that you do everything correctly at the correct step, especially handling other people’s money. So I just want to go over a little bit about your first deal.

Can you walk us through your first deal of how you found it, where you found it and what challenges that you faced, to get that first deal?

Brian: [00:14:51] So there’s a lot of challenges. I think getting brokers to pay attention to you is probably the biggest challenge most syndicators have up front. I probably talked to, dozens and dozens of brokers who just wouldn’t give me the time of day. I’d call, Google search brokers in Charlotte, North Carolina, Columbia, South Carolina, Greenville, South Carolina. And, at one point I had a goal of making, contacting 10 brokers a week, and usually I would call 10 brokers a week and maybe I would get one that would answer a phone call or return a phone call, return, email, so that was definitely one of the challenges, but, after several months of learning how to do things better, I finally got a couple of brokers that would actually return my phone calls. And I don’t blame the other brokers, no hard feelings.

 They work on commissions and at the time I was probably a big risk, they’re like this guy’s a noob, I don’t even think he can close, and at first, maybe I couldn’t have, but, I did absolutely leverage my, coach in that as well. When I’d get somebody on the phone that asks about my experience, I’m like, I’ve got a coach who’s got a lot of experience and he’s walking me through the process. But, I decided, I live in DC and my target market was, South Carolina we’re looking at Columbia and we’re looking at Greenville, South Carolina, and I decided that I was just going to get in the car and take a trip.

I took a week off of work and, started planning for it. Contacted as many brokers as I could. And I ended up getting two brokers who agreed to show me a property, and in my mind, I had imagined, visiting many properties while I was down there, not just two, but, I met Eric Shirley at one of the properties.

We walked through it and together, put an offer for me on that one. Didn’t get it, and then I went to walk another property, put an offer in on that one. Didn’t get it. But while I was there, one of the brokers, she’s like, Hey, you’re coming to walk property X with us at 1:00 PM.

We just got another property that’s a couple of miles down the road and it fits your criteria. Do you want to walk that one as well? Yeah, sure. And that ended up being the one we got under contract. We put the offers in, on the other two properties, those didn’t pan out and I called the broker back and I’m like, Hey, you remember that one I looked at and Spartanburg yeah, is it still available?

I said, yeah, it actually is. And so we started, dissecting that a little bit more, sharpening our pencil and eventually got it under contract. It was just one of those where I think one of the absolute keys was, I drove down there. I spent some time down in that area, had I not physically been down there, they probably wouldn’t have shown it to me.

I may not have ever even gotten that information from them. But, so yeah, we got under contract and like I said earlier, there were three of us at the time. It wasn’t four Oaks capital, it was three dudes trying to come together and buy an apartment building. And, we had to find somebody else. We looked at the total raise and the three of us weren’t quite comfortable with that number. So we found somebody else, Todd Butler brought him in on this one deal and went from three dudes on a deal to four dudes on a deal. but what we found is our interest aligned our goals, aligned our timelines aligned, we were all trying to get out of the rat race.

We were all trying to get away from our, our nine to five jobs, me by retiring, and they were just. You’re done with corporate America type stuff. But we all had this goal of, two to three years, be out of our daytime jobs. And we liked each other. We worked well together, so we formed a company and we decided that we would do our real estate ventures exclusively with each other. Yeah, there’s no more Brian Briscoe it’s, Four Oaks Capital.

Aileen: [00:18:12] What was the timeline from when you actually walked those properties to when you actually closed?

Brian: [00:18:19] Way too long is the answer. So I walked the property. I did the walkthrough in March. We’ve got the property under contract the last week of April.

And, the owner actually made a mistake on the document and our attorney caught it. Typically you measure your contract length and calendar date. And, we asked the owner for 60 calendar days for our due diligence and the owner and the contract give us 60 business days, and my attorney pointed it out to us and he said, They gave, they said business days, she’s like, let’s just sign the contract and go. So we had a lot of time on our hands, we ended up having a 120 day contract period. And it turns out that the lender took an awful long time. And so we had to end up, getting an extension on that one. But, long story short, we closed in October. March is when we looked at it for the first time.

The last week of April is when we got under contract and it was the first week of October that we closed. But yeah, had we been a little more experienced in the process, we could have done it in, 90, 90 days and, but, being brand new at the process, there are a lot of things that we didn’t do efficiently.

A lot of things that we probably should have done faster or different.

Aileen: [00:19:31] And then how many units was it?

Brian: [00:19:32] Brian was 55.

Aileen: [00:19:34] Great to get into your first deal.

Brian: [00:19:36] And it was actually two apartments. they’re about a mile away. One is, in downtown Spartanburg, he has 39 units. And the other one is, just outside of downtown area a 16 unit about a mile away right next to a woman’s college. So anyway. Yeah. Good little solid deals and yeah, that was number one.

Seyla: [00:19:55] So fast forward to today, do you still have that issue with having brokers taking you seriously and also capital raising is another part, when it comes to, buying an apartment, how do you feel now?

Brian: [00:20:07] So the funny, the interesting thing is, there’s people who talk about the law of the first deal. It’s something that Mike Blank talks about a lot, once you have that first deal under your belt, Brokers are going to reach out to you. We’ve focused on one area, you know, upstate South Carolina, and we want to make a name for ourselves, in that area and in the Southeast in general.

And we have brokers who were calling us now. Every once in a while on LinkedIn, I’ll get a message from somebody saying, Hey, I’m at such and such brokerage, we cover the Southeast. Let’s get on the phone and talk, And so, it’s night and day difference, when you first call a broker, as an aspiring investor,  they’re going to ask a bunch of questions.

some of them, are very overt about it. Others are a little more subtle, but they’re going to ask you a bunch of questions to see if you’re able to close. And that’s the big question they want to answer. Are you able to close, We closed on a $4 million property. We raised 1.7, 1.8 million.

 Actually I think it’s 1.9 is where we were at. You might numbers get fuzzy every once in a while, but you know, we raised like 1.9 million to do it. So now we have credibility and brokers are looking at us like. They just closed on a $4 million property. They were able to raise almost 2 million again, now they’re starting to look through what they have on their, in their decks.

And they’re like, here’s a $5 million property. I’m going to see if they want this one, and that’s going through the brokerage mind is now you have track record, you have experience, you’ve shown them that you’re hungry. And now you’re not a risk So you got brokers were reaching out to you.

and.  as far as raising money, it gets easier as well. number one, we’ve gotten better at it, but number two, our track record, we have a track record now. I had a couple of people on our first deal that have invested with us in subsequent deals that said, you know what? I like you, I really do, but I’m not going to invest in your first deal.

Yeah, and I respect that you don’t, I’m like, you know what? Okay. No, that’s logical, that makes sense to me. Um, but, Yeah. so now we have a track record, we’ve got 168 units. Um, we’re about to close on another apartment building and we had an offer accepted last week, you know.

Aileen: [00:22:13] Congratulations

Brian: [00:22:13] Yeah, thanks.  Thanks. still have to go through the contracting process, but at the end of the day, things are easier after you get that first deal under your belt.

Seyla: [00:22:22] So if someone wanted to start in this business and trying to get their first deal, based on your experience so far,  what recommendation would you give to that person?

 Brian: [00:22:30] Number one, find good partners. I think there’s a threshold for what somebody can do by themselves. I don’t think I’d want to do anything bigger than a 20 unit without a lot of help from partners.  But I’d say find good partners, because you may be really good at some things, but you’re probably not going to be good at everything that’s involved in this arena.

 And then the other thing is you gotta know what you’re doing, so spend the time it takes to become an expert in your field. And I think, podcasting is a great way to do that, like you guys I’ve started a podcast and I’m talking to several people every week that are light years ahead of me, so that’s helping me, you know, I’m getting tips and tricks all the time from people who are, three, four, 10, 12 years, ahead of where I’m at right now. And then, mentorship program, like I said, you don’t need to do it, it’s nice to have somebody with experience that you can pick up the phone and call and say, Hey, look, I’m having a problem with this.  I’m having a problem with that. what do you think? Yeah, that’s also very helpful to have, a lot of people can get it out to sweat equity, but at the end of the day, you need to know what you’re doing, how however you get that knowledge, is up to you.

but, there’s easier ways to do it and learning from other people in my mind is one of the easier ways to do it.

Aileen: [00:23:43] a wesome. And so you also mentioned, about your new podcasts that you have. can you give us a little bit more of an overview if, the listeners were to go and, to check it out, what would they find?

Brian: [00:23:52] You know what, I think it’s the best podcast in the world, but, you guys are probably thinking it’s second best, but, Nah, just teasing, but anyway, it’s called, Diary of an Apartment Investor and I think it’s unique. I haven’t heard any other podcasts that has the same structure.  We have ask the expert episodes. So every other episode I’m bringing on two guests at a time, I’m bringing on an experienced investor and I’m bringing on an aspiring investor. The first half episodes were about 40 minutes. The first half of the podcast is like any other podcasts where you’re interviewing somebody with experience. And then I bring on an aspiring investor. Somebody who’s either just starting out or, maybe has a couple of deals under their belt and wants to scale.

Well, and at some point in the show, I say, Hey, we’ve got Seyla on the line here, he’s really experienced. What do you want to ask him? And the last 10 or 15 minutes of every episode is a back and forth between an aspiring investor who wants to learn and somebody who’s been there. So that’s a, like I said, I think it’s unique.

And it’s fun to get to know both sides. I get to everyday be exposed to both sides of the point. People who are still trying to get their first deal and people who have done several deals.

Aileen: [00:25:01] That’s great. We encourage everybody listening to go ahead and subscribe to the Diary of an Apartment Investor. I know you’re going to find a lot of good tips out there, so thank you.

Brian: [00:25:10] Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah.

Seyla: [00:25:12] So how has real estate investing impacted your life so far?

Brian: [00:25:16] It’s something that, for example, we’re going to be living in Idaho, in a smaller town, real estate investing means I can live wherever I want, and right now the answer is we want to live close to family.  We’ve lived where the Marine Corps has told us for a long time, and this is a job I can do from anywhere. My wife says I want to live in Idaho Falls next to my family and I can do that without having to worry about finding a job in a small market. So I think that, first and foremost, that’s it right there. It gives me the freedom to live wherever I want.

Seyla: [00:25:50] What is one thing that you know now about real estate that you wish you knew when you first started? 

Brian: [00:25:56] I wish I knew that commercial real estate wasn’t, let me see how to put this.  I told you that, when I first read the Rich Dad, Poor Dad book, I thought commercial real estate was not accessible to me.

That’s what I wish was different. I wish I would have realized 15 years ago that I could still do commercial real estate.  Yeah, I missed a lot of years of very high growth from 2010 until now and I could have taken advantage of them. I did have a couple of single family homes that experience growth, but man, if I would have had a couple of apartment complexes instead of a couple of homes.

Seyla: [00:26:32] What is one thing that sets the successful people apart in real estate investing business?

Brian: [00:26:38] I think it’s a partially the drive. You’ve got to have the drive, and yeah, like I said, I have a date on the calendar. Okay. The date on the calendar for over two years now, I need to be at this point by this day.

And I keep that date in the forefront. I keep that count down there. Having clear objectives, a drive to get there. And then you also have to know what you’re doing. I’ve mentioned that a couple of times you’ve got to know the business that you’re operating in.

Seyla: [00:27:06] That makes sense. What tools or techniques have you used to improve the efficiency of your business or your personal life?

Brian: [00:27:12] You know, um, we’ve actually bought like textbooks, so college textbooks on real estate, asset management and things like that. Yeah. So, you know, number one, we’re constantly reading. Like I said, I’ve got a couple of multifamily books that have showed up to my house this week from Amazon, that I’ll be reading.

And, like I said, the podcast, interviewing people, two or three times a week who are doing the same thing that I’m doing or that I want to do. That’s also been key in getting better.

Aileen: [00:27:41] And so Brian, if our listeners wanted to find out more about you or get in touch with you, where can they go?

Brian: [00:27:46] Our website is fouroakscapital.com and the podcast is Diary of an Apartment Investor and it’s on all major apps. The podcast, webpage or homepage is fouroakscapital.com/podcast. So, pretty simple. And my contact information is plastered all over the website. Lots of ways to contact me directly, fouroakscapital.com is the simplest.

Aileen: [00:28:08] Thank you so much, Brian. We really enjoyed our conversation today.

Brian: [00:28:11] Yeah. Thanks guys. I appreciate it too.