Aileen (00:01):

Thank you, everyone for joining today’s episode of the, How Did They Do It Real Estate podcast. I’m your host, Aileen Prak and today’s guests. We have Charles Seaman. Charles is a native of Brooklyn New York that currently resides in Charlotte, North Carolina, and serves as senior acquisition manager and asset manager of three Oaks management, LLC, in which he actively works to locate high-performing multifamily real estate deals throughout the Southeast region of the United States. He’s also responsible for performing all of the company’s initial underwriting and analysis, and is also involved with the contract negotiation and capital raising. So that’s just a little bit about your background, Charles. We’re really excited to have you on the show today. How are you doing?

Charles Seaman (00:39):

Aileen, Thank you very much for having me. I’m equally as excited to be here. I’m doing wonderful. And it’s a Friday afternoon. We record this and couldn’t be better.

Aileen (00:47):

Thank you so much. So I’d love to hear a little bit more about your background and how did you get started in real estate?

Charles Seaman (00:54):

Sure. So I there’s some extent that I was kind of lucky because I fell into it. For me when I was 20 years old, for lack of a better term, I was young, dumb and broke. And at that time I had gotten a job working for an individual that amongst other things was a commercial real estate investor. And he also owned different businesses, a plumbing company, some, some bars and restaurants and little by little as I worked my way up there, I wound up helping him manage all of his different businesses and properties and got to work very closely with him and learn a lot from him. And it was, I was very fortunate in that regard to do so. Even though there was a lot of long hours and low pay at the beginning and eventually it got better, but, you know, study at definitely very rough.

Charles Seaman (01:39):

It was a great learning experience that gave me a lot of real life practical experience that I could use. So fast forward a little bit. I always knew that I wanted to run my own business and to do my own investments. And when I started there at 20 years old, it was more or less designed to be a Band-Aid. At that point I was a bank teller prior to that, I didn’t really have much direction in life and my mother had become stable. So I said, Oh boy, I need to go ride and find the, a job that’s going to pay the bills. So lo and behold, I start there and I wound up working more than I ever anticipated, which probably still continues to this day, maybe a little less. And during that time, what I was doing is just building stability and learning a lot and making good connections.

Charles Seaman (02:26):

So I initially intended for that to be more of a short term, fix two to three years, but sometimes you get a little too comfortable and I was there 14 years. So Ryan they’re staying a lot longer than I ever expected. And I said, you know, I started doing a little better financially. And I said, you know, it was at a point where I said, okay, I was in my mid-thirties. I said, it’s time to start doing something different because if I don’t, I’m going to apologize. That’s will go out in the background. But

Aileen (02:54):

No problem.

Charles Seaman (02:59):

Just one Minute. That’s the one challenge of working from home sometimes. So, so lo and behold, I started getting to an extent complacent, not so much to my work. I mean, I was still very, very vibrant in that, but I said, you know what? I didn’t start here with the intent of staying here my whole life. And I said, I’m in my mid-thirties. Now it’s time to do something different because if I don’t, I’m just going to wind up stuck here forever and lo and behold, 2019 middle of the year, I decided, okay, let’s give up all these stability and let’s try something different. We’ll shake it up. And I relocated to Charlotte, North Carolina because that’s where my point is. I decided to focus our syndication business. And I said, well, how do you get to know the market better than living in working in it every single day?

Charles Seaman (03:47):

So that was my intent, put myself right in the centre of it and just get the chance to develop better relationships, to know the market better than other people in the culture better. So moved down here a total change of life. And I said, it was overall. It was a good thing. We, I had been working at this for about two years prior to doing that. And I was doing it probably about 10 to 15 hours a week on top of my job, which depending on the week was anywhere from 60 to 90 hours. And I decided, okay, the only way I’m really going to make this work is I had to put more time in, you know, 10 to 15 hours is good, but what you have is a hobby. And while, while it’s a good start, because listen, not matter, not everybody’s going to jump into this full-time and I would, I would tell anybody when you’re starting out, you should not jump into this full-time unless you’re independently wealthy and can sustain yourself because there’s probably going to be some time before you start making money with it, but I’ve been doing it for two years.

Charles Seaman (04:43):

I looked at a lot of deals, submitted offers on quite a few, and we came close on some, but hadn’t gotten many. So when I decided to make this more of a focus, I said, okay, let’s put more time into it on every week basis. We closed our first deal, lo and behold, in September of 2019, I moved down to Charlotte, ironically, we to get a deal in Atlanta. So I said, okay, it’s not too far. It’s within a few hours. So it was close enough. We’ll take it. Let’s not kick a gift horse in the mouth. And the it’s true. What they say is that the hardest deal to do is always your first one, because once you do the first one, all of a sudden, the flood Gates open up and I had set a goal to have a second deal on the contract.

Charles Seaman (05:22):

By the end of 2019, I felt a little bit short, but it kept me motivated. So I ended up getting one in the contract in mid-February of 2020. So it was a little behind, but not too bad. And lo and behold, we had a global pandemic somewhere in between and took us about seven and a half months to close that deals where I joke around with the brokers and the other people that were involved in sales, probably the longest closing of a 48 year deal at any way he’s ever had. And but it’s been a good thing. So that was our second deal. We closed September, 2020. And ironically as we record this, I actually have two deals in the contract right now, simultaneously. So that’s the first as a step in the right direction.

Aileen (05:58):

Oh, wow. Congratulations. Especially at a time. Yeah. And so let’s go back to the first deal if we can for a little bit and talk about what were some of the challenges that you face getting into that first deal? And how did you find the deal? How did you finance it? We’ll just get into a little bit of the specifics.

Charles Seaman (06:19):

So there’s a couple of challenges that I would give and a couple of common mistakes that a lot of people make. And I was no different. If anything, I may have been the poster boy for him. Because I know some people they learn very well by listening. I’m more like the kid that has to put his hand on the stove and get burned. And then you learn, so people tell you don’t do this. I go out there and do it. I said, okay, that’s why you don’t do it. So behold in 2017, when I really started making a run at this, I said, okay, there were a few things I realized. One is you have to pick a target market. And a lot of people will tell you that and maybe starting out, some people don’t realize the importance of that, but I would say it’s important for two reasons.

Charles Seaman (07:03):

So the way you get deals in this business primarily is going to be through relationships. Real estate is very much a relationship business and that doesn’t change when you’re on the multi-family and commercial side. So if you want good deals, you better get out there and develop good relationships. And can you do it virtually and by phone? Yes, but you can do it a lot better in person. So I would recommend anybody to pick a market and to spend some time in that market. So ideally you want a market that’s not too difficult for you to get to. You don’t have to invest in your home market. I didn’t though. I relocated my home. So I guess it is my home market now. And what I would say is that there’s two benefits. One is that you’re not spending all that time on researching the market and getting familiar with it.

Charles Seaman (07:47):

And two is, you’re not spending time building brand new relationships. There’s the one disadvantage to going from market to market is that you’re always the low man on the totem pole. So when we first started out, my point is I decided to, you know, basically look at anything east of the Mississippi river. So for anybody familiar with geography, that’s a fairly large section of the US so one month I was in Ohio and other month I was in Indiana twice. I went to Kentucky. One of my partners went to Tennessee. So we covered a good portion of various States that at least myself I hadn’t been to before, and we faced the same challenge every time. So after about a year, we finally got smarter and said, okay, you know what? We really need to pick a target market because we don’t, we’re going to keep having the same challenge that we do.

Charles Seaman (08:34):

And this will be the same recurring issue over and over. So we decided to settle on Charlotte and really the Carolinas as a whole that’s our target market, because one of my partners already lived here and I said, you know what? It makes sense. I said, you’re down there already. It’s one of the best markets in the country. We’re really thinking too hard about this. That should be the market. There’s a lot of things favourable bash. So that’s thing. Number one is pick a target market. Second thing I would say, and those are another mistake I’ve made is not having investors lined up. So there’s a lot of people I know with money. And some of you listening might be in similar positions. But one thing I would tell you is just because, you know, people with money doesn’t mean that they’re going to give it to you.

Charles Seaman (09:20):

So one of the mistakes made, and this can work well in single family and probably smaller multi-family, but it’s very tough to do. Its indication is that if you don’t, I have an investor base, it’s going to be very tough for you to go out there and raise money if you don’t have that base. And the thing is with the syndication business in particular, you’re selling securities. So what that means is we’re subject to regulation by the sec, the Securities and Exchange Commission. So there’s a lot of rules and regulations that if you violate them can cost you a lot of money and some cases even full sentences. So we definitely advocate everybody following the rules and to do that, that means you have to have pre-existing substantative relationships with your investors. So most people, well starting out, I think probably try to make a go of this business by themselves.

Charles Seaman (10:12):

And the first couple of months I did that, but I realized that wasn’t quite making the traction I wanted. And then I determined, okay, you know what? You really need partners, unless you really are independently wealthy and putting a lot of money. And a lot of time into this business up front, you’re going to need a partner because eventually as you start gaining some momentum, your workload is going to be too much. And the way I’d recommend most people set it up. As you have one person on the acquisition and deal site and one person, I mean, side. So you should be spending as much time find finding investors as you are finding deals. If you’re only focusing all your time in one bucket, or are you going to have, is that one bucket? So you need both that. Then the last titbit I would give is building sponsor relationships.

Charles Seaman (10:54):

And what I would say is of all these different things, these are all different points that we’ll have help you, but the sponsor relationships to me will be what really allows you to build your business faster. So I had found the deal in Ohio seemed to make sense in October of 2017. Now, for anybody that doesn’t know a sponsor is somebody that signs as a key principle or a loan guarantor on your financing. But the thing is for somebody who’s signed on that loan, even though you’re giving them a piece of the pie, they want to feel confident in your ability to perform and in who you are as a person rest assured nobody. And I mean, nobody will sign on a seven or eight figure loan for you without knowing who you are. So you want to build good relationships for me personally, when I found that deal in Ohio, I did not have a sponsor relationships.

Charles Seaman (11:48):

So let me be clear the time not to reach out to the sponsors when you have a deal and you’re saying, hi, Mr. Sponsor, would you mind signing on this seven figure loan for this deal? Even though you don’t know me, as you can imagine, the answer is usually going to be no. So you want to build those relationships and have them in place. So that way, when you get a deal, you’re able to use those relationships and have those people ready to go. So will important pieces. And the other thing I would say, that’s really important with sponsor relationships. If you build good relationships with them and for anybody listening, make sure that you ask the sponsors before you do this, you can, with their permission, you can use their name and their track record to help you build your own business. So this business is all about track record and until you have your own, the fastest way to build it is using somebody else.

Charles Seaman (12:38):

So, you know, for anybody listening out there, just think about it. Does it sound better when you go through a broker or to an investor and say, you know, Hey Mr. Broker, Mr. Investor, my name is Charles. I haven’t done a deal yet, but I like to get your off market deals and see what you have. Or if you go to him and say, Hey, Mr. Broker, my name is Charles. I’m working with Joe Smith. You know, Joe’s got 2,500 units. I’m just boots on the ground in this market. Would you have something that might be a good fit for us? So for anybody listening out there, you’re probably thinking and saying, option two sounds a lot better. And I would agree with you. So keep that in mind as you build your business, because that’ll help you a lot now onto the first deal. And specifically the challenges we face with that.

Charles Seaman (13:18):

So that deal, we actually had brought to us by our sponsor, ironically. So we would, we have relationships with a few different sponsors and the one who brought us our first deal is somebody that we had put a good number of deals in front of over the previous year, before that we had submitted offers on quite a few of them. We made it the best and final rounds on sound, but for one reason or another offers didn’t get accepted. So we knew that we were at the, we looking, he had confidence in us. He liked us and vice versa, and he had a 92 minute deal in the Atlanta market, which was his staffing. But at least at that time, he wasn’t keep the deals that size because he was doing two and three and 400 unit deals. So he really didn’t have any interest in doing a 9,200 by himself.

Charles Seaman (13:59):

So he asked us if we would be interested, he sent it over to us. We looked at it and everything made sense. And then at that point we said, okay, well, we don’t see any reason why not to go forward with this let’s move forward. So wish that we got lucky, but it was also building the relationship and having the work put in. And the time with that sponsor that made him think of us and said, you know, let’s give these guys a shot and see if they’re able to perform now, what are the challenges? I would say that we faced also with it as capital raising. And this goes back to what I was saying before about spending a lot of time finding the deal. And probably not as much as we should have find the investors, my partners, and I felt we had good networks and we do have good networks, but when you don’t have it, the right type of networks for the syndication business, the, my partners come from a single family and flipping back.

Charles Seaman (14:47):

Yeah. So they know a lot of people that were active real estate investors, and they were funding their own deals for me. I came from New York and I knew a lot of people that have money. Many of which could buy deals like this by themselves, where they don’t need people like me for them. And you know, a lot of them don’t really have any desire to invest passively in my deals. So the thing is there’s always good networks and different people serve different purposes in your life. But if you’re looking for investors and your syndication deals, you really want high income earning professionals, you know, doctors, lawyers, software engineers, people who were making good six figure incomes. They’re not rich, but they’re not poor. And they don’t have the time, the desire or the expertise to run their own deals. So one thing we learned after the first deal was that we had to develop a brand new network. So that way we didn’t have this problem going forward. We did get the raise completed, but to say that we had to literally contact just about everybody we’d ever met is probably an understatement. I think we went back to getting out our high school yearbooks and contacting people and saying, you know what, somebody who had to become successful.

Aileen (15:55):

Wow. That was a lot of great advice. Thank you so much.

Charles Seaman (15:58):

You’re welcome.

Aileen (15:59):

What are the things that you talked about also was the importance of building the relationship with the brokers and the sponsors. Can you share some of the strategies that you use and then any advice that you have for building that relationship and making sure that it’s a valuable one instead of just, you know, honing or just bothering them with just questions and stuff like that. So it’s, they’re more strategic and more valuable way to add value to the brokers and the sponsors. So

Charles Seaman (16:27):

What I find to be most important is consistency. And I think what separates the people at the top of this business and the people headed to the top versus the ones that are just people doing it on in their spare time is consistency more than anything else. And eventually while you may start out as a relative, nobody in the business, the way you change, that is the keep coming around. Eventually if you keep showing up and you keep doing what you say, you’re going to do, people are going to start taking you seriously, and that’s what will happen. So what I tell people is syndication is definitely more of a marathon than a sprint. It is not the type of business. You got to make a lot of money in quick. You know, if you want to make money quick, you should probably start wholesaling or doing shopping that’ll fit that, that desire better.

Charles Seaman (17:19):

But if you’re okay putting a lot of work in a front for very little return, and knowing that that return is down the line, then syndications are great fit for you. And it’s, it’s going to be something that consistency is going to be, what gets you there? You know, eventually you, you, the brokers may not know who you are, but if they see you actively looking at deals that they’re sending you and responding to them, eventually they’re going to say, you know what? This guy has looked at a couple of things. He submitted a few offers. Let, let’s give him a shot with an off-market one, you know, because they, they realize that you’re out there and you’re hungry and they, they may want to see what you can do. And same thing with sponsors. Another thing I would say, and this is always important is with any relationship, you know, even though it is a professional and business relationship, you want to do what you can to establish commonality outside of business.

Charles Seaman (18:07):

So if you have a common interest, if there’s something that you guys can bond on to capitalize on that, that’s something you can build on right away. And for me personally, maybe I’m a little bit old fashioned in this regard. But I find that was one of the things that’s definitely helped since I relocated to my target market is I try to get in front of brokers on a regular basis, take them out for lunch, take them out for coffee, go to a properties. You know, even if you’re not necessarily interested in the property if it’s something that you can do to get in front of them. And am I saying, like drive across the state, but if it’s something you can do in a reasonable period of time, go do it. Find the, find the reason to get in front of them, build a relationship and go from there.

Charles Seaman (18:48):

And one thing we did that actually had pretty good results in the pre pandemic world is we had a Super bowl party and we decided at a local bar and restaurant, we said, okay, you know what, let’s get a couple of our favourite brokers together. We’ll have a night out. And you know what, we really didn’t talk real estate at all. It was a night of bonding, you know, maybe a little more drinking than we should. But it was a good night that we got to build relationships with each of them and just hang out on somewhat of a social basis. So that’s something, we had a lot of success with them. It didn’t cost us a lot of money

Aileen (19:21):

Building relationships outside of just real estate. So finding the commonality between you and the sponsor or the brokers, and then also so after your first deal, did you find the second deal in February of 2020 through the same broker or the same sponsor, sorry, or how did you find that next deal,

Charles Seaman (19:43):

Different broker and different sponsors. So the second deal was an off-market deal that actually came to us from a relationship we were building in the Carolinas. And this goes back to the importance of getting in front of people. We had taken them out to lunch somewhere in mid-January. He accessed if we were interested in this particular market, which is called Sumter South Carolina, and I have to admit, I had to look it up. Because I said, I don’t know which out there is. So there’s a tertiary walking in South Carolina and the numbers check that’s where I said, okay, you know what? Let’s take a peek at it. We went down there, we toured the area. We toured the property. We met the broker there and we got here in the contract mid-February. So that was a North market when they came through a broker relationship and we went with a different sponsor on that one.

Charles Seaman (20:28):

And of course the sponsor on our first deal, even though we have a great relationship with them, I would say two things. One is the second year was a little bit smaller. It was 48 units where our first one was 92. So the sponsor that sponsor our first deal really didn’t have any interest in sponsoring a 48 unit deal was too small for them. And also what I would say is that it’s good to have multiple sponsors. You know, there’s always a few that you’re going to have really good relationships with which, which we do, but the key is that you want to have multiple sponsors. So that way, if one sponsor tells you, no, it doesn’t mean that you don’t have any shot at doing that deal. So you always want to have different people to go to. It’s just like having different tools in your tool belt, right. You know, you want to have different types of screwdrivers because you may have different screws or unit that you need.

Aileen (21:14):

And so one of the other things that we talked about prior to the recording, or a little bit earlier, was that you host an underwriting session every Saturday. So I think that that provides a lot of value to sponsors and, you know and just getting yourself educated and learning about these deals. Can you talk a little bit about that and how did you get started with that?

Charles Seaman (21:37):

Sure. So every Saturday you have to do it on zoom. We host an underwriting session with what we do is we underwrite an actual multi-family deal. And most times the deals that I have in my inbox. But I do encourage attendees to also submit deals with their owner if they want us to use it during the session. And the way it started was actually at the beginning of the year we had taken on a couple of people on our team, who we were giving training to and exchange for. Having them look at deals in different markets. And most of them are people that are local to Charlotte. There were a few that weren’t, but the ones that were local, what we would do is we would get together in person each Saturday and work through different deals. So that way we could help everybody improve their skill and let them know where they should be doing things differently.

Charles Seaman (22:24):

So when the pandemic happened, all of a sudden that put the kibosh on meeting in person. So I said, okay, you know what, let’s, let’s start doing it on zoom instead. We’ll just do it on zoom. We can do it on virtually and we’ll do it from our own homes. And then at that point, I thought I’d said, well, you know what, I’m doing it anyway. And it’s on zoom. So what’s the difference if I have four people or a hundred people? So I started opening it up to other people because I said, okay, it doesn’t need to be just for the people on our team. You know, obviously we have that, the issue, they have the resources available to learn and to improve. But I said, you know, if it’s something that I’m doing anyway, it’s not costing me anything extra. It’s not taking any extra time. I said, let’s open it up to more people and throw it out there. So some people have interest in it. We get some people that come know religiously every Saturday and we have others that come once or twice and don’t come back. So I think it’s just a matter of preference and different people finding different things out of it.

Aileen (23:19):

Thank you. And so what are the types of metrics that you guys focus on when underwriting a deal?

Charles Seaman (23:26):

So, so there’s a few of these, the most important ones that I look at annual rate of return IRR and cash on cash return. So those are the big ones. I would also throw a debt coverage ratio in there. Now, what I would say is that most of the deals I look at, at least the ones that I seriously considered tend to have a very strong debt coverage. So I find that of, of all the deals of all the metrics. That’s the one I usually have the least problem hitting. So I’m glad to see that that’s encouraging, but cash on cash return, annualized rate of return. IRR are the other big ones I focus on.

Aileen (23:59):

Well, thank you so much. I think that that’s such a valuable resource that you’re providing to everybody and doing the underwriting. So thank you for that. And so Charles what’s next for you and your company?

Charles Seaman (24:12):

So we set a goal for 2021 that we want to be able to close on a thousand new units. So the two deals we have on the contract now we’ll both close in 2021. So that’ll put us at a start of 128. So it leaves an 872 left for the year. So we’ll have to keep busy and keep looking at different deals and really be active in the market, which we intend to anyway. So that’s my specialty. So I control that side of it and go big, you know, you got to go big or go home, right? So one of the things we’ve done that’s helped us recently. What my goal in the syndication space has always been to play in the larger, multi-family a hundred, 200, 300 units, and that’s still the space I want to play in. But the truth of it is I’ve found that we’ve had a lot more success in the medium sized space from 50 to 100 units.

Charles Seaman (24:59):

And it’s always been said that there’s significantly less competition when you’re looking at properties that are 20 to a hundred units at 20 units. Usually you price out the mom and pop investors in most cases. And if you’re less than a hundred, the big money’s not going to come in and chase it. And there’s a lot of truth to that. So what I would say is that in the 50 to a hundred space well initially I was reluctant to do that because I said, you know, I really don’t want to get pigeonholed in that space because it may be tough to get out of. But I thought about and said, you know what? It makes more sense doing five or six 50 or 60 unit deals than it does zero 300 unit deals. I say that at least we have some money flowing in we’re building a track record.

Charles Seaman (25:40):

So I said, and also what happens is even closing one or two deals in that space. You have a significant advantage over the competition because the competition you’re facing in that space are usually brand new syndicators that don’t have any track record at all. Sometimes they’re local families were those going to be credible buyers, but some of them just aren’t as sophisticated as well-run syndication businesses. So you really have very little real competition. So once you build a little bit of credibility, you can start getting those deals and the deals that make sense financially. The only key is figuring out how to manage them properly, because the one challenge with most of those deals is that you’re not going to be able to afford to staff, or at least not full-time staff. So you need to figure out how to properly manage them so you can protect your money and your investors’ money.

Aileen (26:29):

That makes absolutely a lot of sense. Thank you so much for sharing. And so Charles, how has real estate investing impacted your life so far?

Charles Seaman (26:39):

You know, for me, it’s impacted it positively. I enjoy it a lot. You know, when I was working full-time for the gentleman that I did in New York he had all different businesses in different industries, and I always knew that I gravitated more towards the real estate side. The, you know, the, the plumbing company is more in the construction niche. And to be honest, that’s probably even more profitable, but I also realize there’s more stressful. So real estate has stress, but for me personally, I kind of liked the stress that comes with it. So it doesn’t bother me. And I enjoy it. Like when some people ask why I do the zoom sessions that I do on Saturday afternoons, part of the reason is just I enjoy it. So I don’t really mind it because I’m doing something I enjoy anyway.

Charles Seaman (27:22):

So for me, it’s had a positive impact. I think financially it has me positioned to be in a good position over the next few years. And most people will get into real estate. I think the goal is always, you know, finding something that can help you develop that passive income. Many of us are subscribers to the Robert Kiyosaki philosophy of, you know, find the asset and escape the rat race. So I’m no different in that regard. What I would say is I, you know, a lot of times I focus much on work because that really is the basis of my life at this point, but I still want that elusive escape of the rat race. So that’s what I’m working towards and real estate is my vehicle to achieve that.

Aileen (28:04):

And what is one thing that, you know now about real estate that you wish you knew when you first started?

Charles Seaman (28:09):

I should have started sooner and that’s something a lot of people say what I realized is, you know, for a long time I was active going to meet up events. I was working in real estate, so I was in the industry, but I wasn’t there to myself. And maybe I was reluctant to pull the trigger to an extent, what I would say is that I realized that meetup events, like when I would go, when I would speak to people, a lot of them said, Oh, I was giving them good advice. And I said, well, you know, it’s encouraging. You know, I was glad to hear that some people were making money with my advice. I said, the only problem is I’m not making any money with my advice. So I, if anything, I probably should have started sooner and been less hesitant to pull the trigger. You know, you don’t want to pull them right away, but you want to get in a position where you know, enough and then pull the trigger.

Aileen (28:57):

And what is one thing that you think that the successful people that sets the successful people apart in the real estate, investing business,

Charles Seaman (29:04):

Discipline and consistency, more than anything else and not even real estate with any business, the one thing that separates successful people from unsuccessful or less successful people is discipline the people who are willing to wake up early, go to bed late, make the sacrifices, put the time and the effort and the work will be rewarded. Now there are systems that you can build that will eventually allow you to do less of that, but there’s got to be a lot of that along the way. So if that’s not what you’re looking for, then you probably won’t achieve exceptional results.

Aileen (29:37):

And so can you share any tools or techniques that you’ve used to improve the, of your life or your personal life or your business life?

Charles Seaman (29:45):

You, you know what, I should probably use more technology than I do. You know, for a guy who’s 36. I probably don’t use enough of it, but for me personally, I tend to be old fashioned in a lot of regards. I do use Google calendar, and most of the Google suite of products for my business. But I can’t really say I have exceptional references there for things like that. And most times I’m using spreadsheets or Google products, and that’s usually what I focus on.

Aileen (30:10):

And so Charles where can our listeners find out more about you and if they wanted to learn or participate in your underwriting, where can they go?

Charles Seaman (30:19):

Sure. So what they can do is either send the text to my cell phone 3473063278, or they can reach out by email@charlesatthreeoaksmanagement.com, the number three Oaks, mgmt.com. And they should send an email saying that they heard me on the show and that they want to participate. I’ll be glad to include them in it.

Aileen (30:42):

Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing everything today, Charles, I really enjoyed having you on the show and thank you so much.

Charles Seaman (30:49):

Aileen, Thank you very much for having me. It’s been a blessed,

Aileen (30:51):

Thank you.