{"id":1113,"date":"2020-10-01T23:32:25","date_gmt":"2020-10-02T06:32:25","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/bonavestcapital.com\/podcast\/?p=1113"},"modified":"2020-10-21T13:21:15","modified_gmt":"2020-10-21T20:21:15","slug":"sa007-investing-in-real-estate-using-retirement-accounts-and-401k-checkbook","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/bonavestcapital.com\/podcast\/sa007-investing-in-real-estate-using-retirement-accounts-and-401k-checkbook\/","title":{"rendered":"SA007 | Investing in Real Estate Using Retirement Accounts and 401K Checkbook"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t<div data-elementor-type=\"wp-page\" data-elementor-id=\"1113\" class=\"elementor elementor-1113\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-292ccb3 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"292ccb3\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-background-overlay\"><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-307f24d1\" data-id=\"307f24d1\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-0a212e3 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"0a212e3\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">PODCAST EPISODE<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-a879821 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"a879821\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-43caa13\" data-id=\"43caa13\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-5c17378 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"5c17378\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">SA007 | Investing in Real Estate Using Retirement Accounts and 401K Checkbook<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-ffe13ee elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"ffe13ee\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-7eaef7d\" data-id=\"7eaef7d\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-a472c76 elementor-widget elementor-widget-html\" data-id=\"a472c76\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"html.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div 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elementor-widget elementor-widget-image\" data-id=\"7dd376f\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"image.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<img fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"241\" height=\"299\" src=\"https:\/\/bonavestcapital.com\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/10\/Headshot_Bernard-Reisz.jpg\" class=\"attachment-medium size-medium wp-image-1115\" alt=\"\" \/>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-50 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-022db59\" data-id=\"022db59\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-ae2d8fa elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"ae2d8fa\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Bernard Reisz<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-f00186b elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"f00186b\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p style=\"margin-top: 20px; margin-bottom: 20px; color: #666666; font-family: lato, 'Helvetic Neue', Arial, san-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-weight: 400;\">Bernard Reisz, is a CPA and is the founder of 401kCheckbook.com, which gives investors direct control of their tax-sheltered funds for real estate equity and debt opportunities using Checkbook Control IRAs, QRPs, Solo 401(k)s, and Checkbook Life Insurance.\u00a0 He\u2019s an expert on self-directed IRAs and how to compliantly use this vehicle to invest in real estate.<\/p><p style=\"margin-top: 20px; margin-bottom: 20px; color: #666666; font-family: lato, 'Helvetic Neue', Arial, san-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-weight: 400;\">He is also the founder of AgentFinancial.com, which provides tax, entity, and financial services to real estate professionals, including real estate agents, real estate investors, and mortgage brokers.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-33d8880 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"33d8880\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-fea6950\" data-id=\"fea6950\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-c263d61 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"c263d61\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Connect with Bernard<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-79bf548 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"79bf548\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<ul style=\"list-style-type: none; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; margin-left: 35px; color: #666666; font-family: lato, 'Helvetic Neue', Arial, san-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal;\"><li style=\"list-style: disc; line-height: 32px;\">Email at: <a href=\"mailto: bernard@resurefinancial.com\"><b>Bernard@resurefinancial.com<\/b><\/a>\u00a0or <a href=\"mailto: success@resurefinancial.com\"><b>success@resurefinancial.com<\/b><\/a><\/li><li style=\"font-weight: 400; list-style: disc; line-height: 32px;\">Google: Bernard Reisz, ResureFinancial, or ReSure LLC<\/li><li style=\"font-weight: 400; list-style: disc; line-height: 32px;\"><a style=\"color: #92c13c;\" href=\"http:\/\/401kcheckbook.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">401kCheckbook.com<\/a><\/li><li style=\"font-weight: 400; list-style: disc; line-height: 32px;\"><a style=\"color: #92c13c;\" href=\"http:\/\/agentfinancial.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">AgentFinancial.com<\/a><\/li><\/ul>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-140f9af elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"140f9af\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-a9d46cd\" data-id=\"a9d46cd\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-780c7b8 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"780c7b8\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Transcript<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-9e657a9 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"9e657a9\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:00:00]\nThank you, everyone for joining today&#8217;s episode of the, How Did They Do It?\nReal Estate podcast. We are your hosts, Seyla and Aileen and today&#8217;s guest, we\nhave Bernard Reisz. &nbsp;Bernard, is a CPA\nand is the founder of 401kCheckbook.com, which gives investors direct control\nof their tax-sheltered funds for real estate equity and debt opportunities\nusing Checkbook Control IRAs, QRPs, Solo 401(k)s, and Checkbook Life Insurance.&nbsp; He\u2019s an expert on self-directed IRAs and how\nto compliantly use this vehicle to invest in real estate.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>He is also the founder of AgentFinancial.com, which provides\ntax, entity, and financial services to real estate professionals, including\nreal estate agents, real estate investors, and mortgage brokers.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>We are so happy to have you on today, Bernard. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:00:41]\nThank you for having me. It&#8217;s great to be here. As I said, you have definitely\ndone your homework. And from what I see you must have a very challenging set of\nquestions lined up for me. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:00:52]\nWe have a lot to get into. This is a fun topic. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:00:55]\nAll right, let&#8217;s dive right in. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:00:57]\nSo can we start off by telling our listeners a little bit more about your\nbackground and your business?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:01:02]\nSo I am a CPA and my background is diverse. What I noticed as a CPA, somebody\nhelping individuals, business owners, from an array of backgrounds is that\neverything is very siloed and people are not getting objective information.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Specifically with regard to tax strategies, your accountant\nmay be an expert at preparing tax returns. And I assure you that for those that\nhave not tried to prepare their own tax returns that have complexity, it is a\ntrue skill. To figure out how to get all that information to flow correctly\ninto a tax return.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>But accountants are not experts in many other areas of tax\nstrategy. They may have a good gut feeling,&nbsp;\nbut they&#8217;re not, they don&#8217;t have that expertise. And there are always\npeople that are coming in pitching do this strategy, the other strategy. And\nthese are people that want to sell things to people. And so I realized there&#8217;s\na need for somebody to approach this in a professional way and say, all right,\nwhat can you do? What can&#8217;t you do? &nbsp;Give\npeople true advice without trying to promote and sell things, and keep their\ninterests first.&nbsp; So that&#8217;s the\nphilosophy. So from that, I&#8217;m active in many areas of tax and financial\nadvisory, with a special focus on self directed retirement accounts, helping\npeople use a tax shelter, these incredible tax shelters,&nbsp; for investing in real estate, cryptocurrency\ntax liens notes, so many different opportunities.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#00D1B2\">Seyla: <\/span><\/b>[00:02:32]\nThank you for the background, many people that get started in real estate\nbecause of the many tax benefits that this assets class has to offer. Can you\ntalk about some of the main tax benefits that both passive and active investors\ncan utilize when investing in real estate? <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>&nbsp;<b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:02:51] Yes, we can divide that\ninto, I&#8217;d say three, three components to that.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So the first is now let&#8217;s talk about when you actually own\nreal estate and you own an asset and it&#8217;s generating rental income.&nbsp; Rental income, the first advantage that it\nhas over earned income, is that it is not subject to payroll tax. So many\npeople think about taxes. They think about income tax. &nbsp;But the truth is a big slice of your taxes are\ngoing towards what I call the payroll taxes, which is FICA, FUTA, SUTA. So if\nyou&#8217;ve ever looked at your W2,&nbsp; you&#8217;re\ngoing to see that there are all sorts of withholding other than income tax. And\nin boxes, three, four, five, you want to focus on those on your W2, and you&#8217;re\ngoing to see there all sorts of other taxes that you pay about 7% of that, the\nrest is picked up by your employer.&nbsp; But\nof course you&#8217;re also paying that, cause an employer, the, that when they make\na salary offer, in addition to paying the salary, they&#8217;re also gonna have to\npay the payroll tax. So you&#8217;re salary gets pushed down because the employer\nlooks at it as what&#8217;s the total cost of&nbsp;\nhaving the employee. So that&#8217;s one of the additional tax that you pay.\nOn most types of earned income rental income does not have payroll tax.&nbsp; so that&#8217;s one component of it.&nbsp; now the other side of this is a rental income\ntends to be tax efficient because of depreciation write-offs.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And now&#8217;s a good time to give a shout out to our good\nfriend, Yonah Weiss.&nbsp; I think we all know\nhim. And so he obviously is the King of depreciation deductions. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:04:26]\nHe is, we had him earlier on as a guest, as our podcast guest too and he has a\nlot of great advice. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:04:32]\nYeah. So that&#8217;s, he takes, depreciation and turbocharges it, before getting\ninto turbocharging, the appreciation lets us understand what the value of it\nis.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>What is the depreciation deduction?&nbsp; Many people toss out the word depreciation\ndeduction, but let&#8217;s try to break it down.&nbsp;\nAny type of capital asset.&nbsp; Here&#8217;s\nthe thing when you have an expense in your business, right? So say you took in\na hundred dollars of income and you had $10 of advertising expense. All right.\nYour net income is going to be $90, a hundred dollars of revenue, $10 of\nexpense, you netted $90 of income.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Now say your business, you buy a long-term asset, right? You\nneed some sort of equipment for your business and you buy that. Is that an\nexpense that you get to reduce? So you bought some sort of equipment and it&#8217;s a\nthousand dollars. So do we say that you had a $900 loss that year because you had\nrevenue of a hundred dollars and you bought this equipment for a thousand\ndollars.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So would you report a tax loss of $900 on your return? And\nthe answer is that you wouldn&#8217;t generally barring any specific exceptions\nbecause you just had a thousand dollars in cash and you traded it for a\nthousand dollar asset.&nbsp; It&#8217;s not\nsomething that you used up. You&#8217;re going to use that equipment to produce\nincome for years to come.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And the idea is that each year say this asset is a seven\nyear asset. So each year you take a deduction for one seventh of the cost of\nthat item. So rather than taking an expense in year one, you get to a claim\nthis expense over seven years, ratably.&nbsp; So\nany business that has capital assets will have depreciation deductions, but\nwith most assets that have depreciation deductions, you know what happens to\nthat equipment after seven years? It goes to the garbage, right? Equipment\ndoesn&#8217;t last forever. It&#8217;s losing value.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>If you try to sell it after seven years, it would have $0\nsalvage value. Now with the real estate, you bought a building for a million\ndollars you&#8217;re claiming and expense each year based on your million dollar\npurchase price. But is your asset after 10 years, is the building worth a\nmillion dollars, less or a million dollars more.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:06:47]\nWe&#8217;re all hoping a million dollars more. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:06:49]\nSo that&#8217;s what tends to happen. So with real estate, you end up with this kind\nof Phantom expense, right? But your asset is going up in value, but you&#8217;re\nstill claiming the cost of the asset as an expense. Now is the cost of that\nasset and money that&#8217;s going out of your pocket.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>&nbsp;You spent that money\nup front right on 80% of it came from the bank anyway.&nbsp; But you get it right. If you buy the asset\nfor a million dollars, but you put in 200,000, the bank put an 800&nbsp; you&#8217;re getting depreciation deductions for a\nmillion dollars, not on 200,000. The appreciation is based on the total cost of\nthe asset.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>&nbsp;So each year you may\nbe reporting if you took it, your financial statement. For your rental\nbusiness, you may show all right, revenue, rental income of $50,000 repairs and\nmaintenance, various expenses. And now you&#8217;re netted you&#8217;re down to net income\nof $15,000. And then comes in this depreciation deduction, which is not money\nout of your pocket.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And all of a sudden, now you&#8217;re showing $15,000, $30,000\nappreciation deduction. And now you&#8217;re reporting a $15,000 loss, but from a\ncash flow perspective, you have positive cash flow. So you have positive cash\nflow with negative taxable income. Right now in any most other businesses, when\nyou have negative taxable income, it also means you have negative cash flow,\nright?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So business real estate, because of this depreciation, this\nnon-cash expense, this Phantom expense, your net worth is going up because the\nvalue of your asset has gone up. So your wealth has gone up. You have positive\ncashflow, but on your tax return, the IRS, Hey, I lost $15,000.&nbsp; I don&#8217;t pay no taxes this year because I lost\nmoney.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>But meanwhile, your bank account and your net wealth had may\nhave doubled or tripled or quadrupled. So that&#8217;s the second component of real\nestate tax advantages. How does that sound? <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:08:40]\nThat sounds good.&nbsp; How about the\ndepreciation recapture at the end?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:08:44]\nOkay. Yeah. So depreciation recapture, by the way, it&#8217;s not as terrible, not as\nintimidating as people make it sound, but that&#8217;s a good way to segue into the\nnext component of real estate benefits, right? When you sell, we&#8217;re talking\nabout now, when you hold the asset, now, how about when you sell the asset?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>&nbsp;So when you sell the\nasset, if it&#8217;s been a longterm hold, the tax rates that you&#8217;re going to pay are\ngoing to be longterm. Capital gains rates would go from zero to 20% in contrast\nwith ordinary income tax rates, which currently go up to 37%. So when you sell\nthe building and you may be recognizing all the accumulated gain, that\nappreciation that happened over the 10 years that you&#8217;ve held it, right?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So you may be cashing in now in a really big way, but rather\nthan paying 37%, you pay 15% or 20%,&nbsp;\nwhich is longterm capital gains rates, unless you have depreciation\nrecapture. So the appreciation recapture can bring your tax rate on the sale up\nto 25%.&nbsp; So 25%. There&#8217;s a lot worse than\n20%, but it&#8217;s nowhere near 37.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So it&#8217;s just gotta be put in perspective. and what\ndepreciation recapture is to the extent that you were allowed to claim\ndepreciation, expense deductions, they get recaptured at the 25% rate rather\nthan the standard longterm capital gains rates. How&#8217;s that? <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:10:11]\nYep. That makes sense. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:10:12]\nOkay. So this brings us to another real benefit of real estate, which is a 1031\nexchange, right?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So it used to be that 10 31 exchanges could be done for your\nplane on horses and boats and all sorts of stuff.&nbsp; But regardless their greatest value is always\nwith real estate. And again, for the same thing, the idea of a 1031 exchange,\njust listeners or anybody that may not be completely familiar with what it is,\nis it takes a sale of an asset and kind of makes it irrelevant for tax\npurposes.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>It lets you forget tax purposes and is treated as if you\ndidn&#8217;t sell the asset.&nbsp; So you don&#8217;t\nrecognize any gain. So before the Trump tax changes, this was available for\njust about any asset.&nbsp; But for most\nassets after you had the asset for 10 years, Was probably worth a lot less,\nright? So they didn&#8217;t have that much application, who wants to for a loss,\nright?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>If you haven&#8217;t asked yet and you&#8217;re going to sell it for a\nloss, you want to recognize the loss. You don&#8217;t want a 10 31 exchange it, but\nreally you listed again, you&#8217;re in this place where you hold onto the asset for\n10 years, you&#8217;ve had this incredible appreciation. If you sell it, you may\nhave, depending on the size of the asset, a few hundred thousand to a few\nhundred million dollars in gain.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And with a 10 31 exchange, you can totally sidestep all this\ndepreciation recapture longterm capital gains, and you can take your money and\nroll it into a new asset. So 10 31 exchange is another key component. One of\nthe benefits of real estate, not when you&#8217;re operating it, but when you selling\nthe asset.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:11:43]\nOkay. And then with the 10 31 exchange, is there a time period where you would\nhave to completely 10 31 exchange and identify the next opportunity? <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:11:52]\nOh, yes. So there are lots and lots of rules surrounding this at a high level.\nYou have a 45 day identification period and 180 days to close. So we&#8217;re looking\nat, and that hundred 80 days runs concurrently with the 45 day identification\nperiod.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So you have to identify, and you&#8217;ve got to close within the\n180 days.&nbsp; If that doesn&#8217;t work out, then\nyou&#8217;ve got a failed exchange. Now there are other strategies or other tools\nthat may be, can be used to save a failed exchange and then obviously you can\nalso use opportunities zones. &nbsp;So there\nare all sorts of things that can be done,&nbsp;\nbut unique to real estate, is the 10 31 exchange.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#00D1B2\">Seyla: <\/span><\/b>[00:12:34]\nSo if we want to start with real estate and using the funds in our retirement\naccounts. How do we do that? <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:12:40]\nThat&#8217;s an excellent question and the key thing here is to understand that there\nis no one on size fits all approach.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So there are a lot of ways to do it, but the fundamental\npremise to all this is that it is certainly allowable to use any type of tax\nsheltered retirement account. For real estate investing now for every\nindividual, there&#8217;s going to be their own termination as to what is the best\naccount structure for them.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So within the account, there are so many different types of\ntax sheltered, retirement accounts, and they&#8217;re all there for a reason.\nanything in the world tax is not one size fits all. and I&#8217;d say broadly\nspeaking, even the world of not just tax in the financial world, you have to\nidentify your own tax profile, your own financial profile,&nbsp; your own goals, and then tailor the solution.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>To that, that being said,&nbsp;\nI&#8217;ll come kick this off with giving us a brief introduction to the two\nbroad classes of retirement accounts. And then you just throw any questions you\ngot. You&#8217;ve got a so broadly speaking, there are two groups of retirement\naccounts. There are qualified retirement plans and individual retirement\narrangements.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So qualified retirement plans is one set of plans. The most\nwell known of those qualified retirement plans are 401K plans, profit sharing\nplans. &nbsp;But there are also money purchase\nplans. There are also defined benefit plans and cash balance plans. So\nqualified retirement plan is one group of retirement accounts.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Individual retirement arrangements is another group of\nretirement accounts and those the most well known are traditional IRA and Roth\nIRA.&nbsp; But there&#8217;s also SEP IRA and simple\nIRA. So two broad groups, every one of those has its application and its proper\nplace.&nbsp; we don&#8217;t want somebody coming out\nand telling everybody you should all be using this retirement account.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>This is the best one.&nbsp;\nIf there was a best one that fit everybody, there would only be one in\nthe retirement account and the, in the tax code, the reason we have so many is\nbecause everybody&#8217;s got to figure out what works best for them. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:14:51]\nSo when you&#8217;re approaching your CPA, in this space, what kind of questions\nshould you be asking to making sure that you&#8217;re making the best use of the time\nand, getting the best information, when you&#8217;re trying to utilize these\ndifferent vehicles?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:15:05]\nThat&#8217;s a tough question.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And it comes back to what we began with CPAs. I have to be\ncautious here, tread with caution, right? So this is area where a, CPA&#8217;s\ndefinitely a key piece of the puzzle, your CPA. And when we help people, these\nretirement accounts, we love interacting with their CPAs and oftentimes their\nCPAs are the ones that suggest, they get in touch with me.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>But the actual figuring out and navigating the space is\nusually falls outside of the realm of your CPA. Now you may have a CPA that is\nan expert in this, but the majority of CPAs are not experts in this space. And\none of the things I tell people is as important as it is good to know a lot and\nto know what, it&#8217;s perhaps more important to be ready to acknowledge,&nbsp; that may be, Hey, there&#8217;s something that I need\nmore research that I may not have the answer off the top of my head.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So we want to collaborate with your CPA. To get the best fit\nfor you.&nbsp; So there&#8217;s times, we do\nunfortunately have to correct mistakes that are made by CPAs in this space, but\nthe best outcome is achieved when we all work together as a team, especially\nbecause,&nbsp; sometimes when we&#8217;re trying to\nfigure out what would be the best fit for you, we&#8217;re going to try to understand\nyour tax profile and the one that oftentimes knows your tax profile best is\nyour CPA and then there are certain things that fall into a gray area and that\ncan go either way. And what we have to aim for is internal consistency and I&#8217;ll\nillustrate, there are certain things that,&nbsp;\ncan maybe go on a schedule C or a schedule D and you can find two CPAs with\naddressing the same scenario, treating them differently.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Neither one of them is incorrect or correct. Because a lot\nof areas of tax come down to, there are no hard and fast rules and you can have\ntwo CPAs diverging on it. And they&#8217;re both correct. Maybe one is more\naggressive. One is less, more conservative.&nbsp;\nBut they&#8217;re neither is incorrect. They&#8217;re both correct.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Now somebody gets in touch with me. I\u2019m like Bernard, ah,\nthis is what I&#8217;m doing. This is my business. I want this type of retirement\naccount. Now. It would be wrong of me to say, Oh, sure, are you doing that kind\nof business? That&#8217;s a schedule C business. You can have this type of retirement\naccount. Right?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And then we go set up the retirement account with him on the\npremise that it&#8217;s a schedule C business, meanwhile, on his 1040, his CPA, put\nit on a schedule D. And now we are not, this doesn&#8217;t jive, right? If the IRS\nlooks at this or like, all right, this does not fit because, all right. I\nunderstand. Okay.&nbsp; Hint 1040 had a\nschedule C and you had this time retirement account that all fits together like\na jigsaw puzzle.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>But his retirement account says that it&#8217;s his taxes turns\nsays that it&#8217;s a schedule D. So if he&#8217;s a schedule D he is not a good fit for\nthis retirement account. So we really have to make sure that everything,&nbsp; clicks, and that&#8217;s what we aim to do with our\nclients. And we&#8217;re happy to get on the phone and talk their CPA and kind of\nstrategize, because our, some things that actually, when viewed from one\nperspective, the optimal tax strategy is put it on schedule D but when viewed\nholistically, the tax strategy can change and say, let&#8217;s put on a schedule C a,\nbut you have to have that discussion.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>&nbsp;So we figure out what\nthe best thing gets. How does that sound? <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:18:19]\nYup. That sounds good. So you work together with the CPA in partnership to make\nsure that everything is lined and that nothing poses as a red flag when the IRS\ndoes their audit. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:18:27]\nYeah, we want it. We really, it takes a, an incredible knowledge, takes broader\nknowledge of tax than just knowing retirement accounts in order to give people\nthe best service, we have to understand everything about their taxes, not just\nknow the retirement account,&nbsp; and, beyond\nthat, we don&#8217;t want to just say, Oh, yeah, you can have this. And&nbsp; if they get in trouble, who bears the\nultimate risk of making a wrong a tax misstep?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:18:55]\nThe client. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:18:56]\nYes.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So&nbsp; it&#8217;s, we&#8217;re the\nfinancial industry is plagued by people that are, want to sell this tax\nshelter, sell that tax shelter. And they&#8217;re selling it and they&#8217;re promoting\nit, but who bears the risk? <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:19:09]\nThe client and investors. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:19:11]\nExactly. The taxpayer is the one that bears the ultimate risk. and they don&#8217;t\nrecognize that, Hey, this guy is really selling me something and just you have\nto exercise caution when you go by, if you go to buy a used car, you have to\nwatch out,&nbsp; when people pitch you tax and\nfinancials, filters watch out,&nbsp; because\nthey&#8217;re compensated by selling you this vehicle.&nbsp; and they may have. Done, whatever it takes to\nprotect themselves just in case you get in trouble.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>&nbsp;So they&#8217;re going to\nsay, Hey, it&#8217;s on you. We said, talk to your CPA and so they washed their hands\nof it, but you may be at the taxpayer may be in trouble. So if anybody&#8217;s going\nout there promoting things, you want to be really cautious because the other\nthing about promoters is that they&#8217;re wearing a big bulls lay on them,&nbsp; because whenever the IRS gets around,&nbsp; Looking into things they like to be\nefficient.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And you know how they get to be efficient. They point their finger\nat this. All right. He it&#8217;s all his clients. He&#8217;s the troublemaker. We just get\nhis list of clients. Then we can just get them all rather than trying to find\nthe needles in the haystack. Caveat and tour,&nbsp;\nWhich means let the buyer beware. and it just understand the\nrelationship, understand that unless you&#8217;re getting advice from somebody that\ndoesn&#8217;t have a conflict of interest, you&#8217;re really in an adversarial\nrelationship, in the financial services place, what happens is the way things\nare generally sold is that.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>The seller tries to present themselves as being on your side\nof the table. and you have to recognize that if they&#8217;re only getting paid\nbecause they sell you something and they have only one product they can sell\nyou. It is impossible for them to put your interests first. The conflicts of\ninterests are just too huge and anybody that frankly has set themselves up with\nthat business model has said that, all right, I&#8217;m here to sell things.&nbsp; I&#8217;m not really here to give advice. I&#8217;m here\nto sell and it&#8217;s unfortunate. This happens every day and I&#8217;ve seen it happen so\nmany times. I don&#8217;t know if you can go Google a syndicated conservation. &nbsp;So that&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve done webinars about\nthat. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>You can go Google captive insurance, IRS. The IRS is all\nover it. something that I&#8217;ve been heavily involved in.&nbsp; So I&#8217;ve seen how these things get promoted.\nAnd then they come back to haunt people. So now when you go out there, the\nfinancial space, make sure you&#8217;re working with somebody that is really trying\nto help you.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Not just says that they want to help you. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#00D1B2\">Seyla: <\/span><\/b>[00:21:29]\nYep. That makes sense. one of the services that your company provided is a 401k\ncheckbook. &nbsp;what is a checkbook and how\ncan it be set up and utilized? Yeah. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:21:39]\nGreat question. So we, when we say 401k checkbook, what we&#8217;re referring to is a\n401k plan.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And would you get the direct access to the money to invest\non your terms? Now we can do that for, with an IRA. We can do it with any type\nof qualified retirement plan.&nbsp; 401k is\nthe kind of when it&#8217;s a good fit, it&#8217;s the optimal vehicle to do that.&nbsp; So what happens is most 401ks are set up with\na financial institution and financial institutions see 401ks as an IRAs, all\nthese accounts as a way to get assets under management, right?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>They&#8217;re primarily in the business of managing your money,\ninvesting your money. And getting fees that way, which is fine. There&#8217;s nothing\nwrong with that. As long as everybody recognizes what&#8217;s going on. &nbsp;It&#8217;s okay to pay a fee for a service. It&#8217;s not\nokay if people have all sorts of hidden fees. But if you say, all right, this\nis the service I&#8217;m getting, and this is the fee, that&#8217;s wonderful.&nbsp; Unfortunately it doesn&#8217;t really work that\nway. The fees are usually hidden.&nbsp; And\nwhen it comes to fees, one thing that is very apropos is better the devil, than\nthe devil you don&#8217;t. So hidden fees tend to be much more expensive than the\nvisible fees.&nbsp; Your standard 401k is set\nup that the financial institution restricts your access to the money and the\nonly choices you have are to invest in what they make available to you. Nowhere\nin 401k tax law, does it say it has to be that way.&nbsp; Our service to you is we&#8217;ll set up a 401k\nplan. We have nothing to sell you.&nbsp; So\nwe&#8217;re just going to set up a plan and you get the unrestricted access as envisioned\nby the tax code,&nbsp; and we will help people\nwith the compliance and we&#8217;ll help people with the strategy. And then there&#8217;s a\nfee for our service, but it is transparent. It&#8217;s simple, it&#8217;s straightforward.\nIt provides incredible value.&nbsp; There are\nno hidden fees, no transaction fees, you get direct access.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And so that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re referring to when we say, 401k\ncheckbook. Or checkbook, QRP, checkbook, IRA. These are all different\nstructures.&nbsp; where you get their rent\ncontrol.&nbsp; and you can do the investments\nthat you choose. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#00D1B2\">Seyla:<\/span><span style=\"color:#DE2898\"> <\/span><\/b>[00:23:52] So for, 401kcheckbook, is it\nreally that we actually got a checkbook and we can just write like a normal\ncheck?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:24:00]\nYes. And you get, you can get the money in a bank account. And so you can\ncheck, you can wire you can ACH.&nbsp; so it\nreally does function like a bank account.&nbsp;\nand. Maybe it&#8217;s good to explain a little bit how it works. You\nunderstand the logic here, a 401k, an IRA, or any type of qualified retirement\nplan in any type of IRA are trusts.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>The difference between an IRA and a qualified retirement plan\nis that a qualified retirement plan is a trust that is set up for the benefit\nof employees. And an IRA is a trust that is set up for the benefit of an\nindividual. So these tax shelters are set up as trusts. Now a trust can hold\nall sorts of assets, right?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So where would a trust hold it&#8217;s cash. In a bank account,\nright? and now when the trustee who manages the trust and runs the trust, if\nthey want to do something on behalf of the trust, they want to buy realism half\nof the trust. &nbsp;So they just write a check\nfrom the trust bank account to buy that real estate or they wired into escrow so\nthe money is there, the closing company has it. &nbsp;It&#8217;s just business as usual.&nbsp; So it functions very much like a trust. There\nare many types of trusts out there. There are living trusts. There are\nrevocable trusts, irrevocable trusts, charitable trusts trust, come in an\ninfinite number of flavors.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So these are trusts that are designed by the tax code and\ngoverned by tax laws. I&#8217;m assuming you want it to have all the tax benefits,\nbut at their core they&#8217;re trusts and they&#8217;re run like trusts. And so they have\nbank accounts. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#00D1B2\">Seyla: <\/span><\/b>[00:25:35] What\nis your recommendation to making sure that we take the full benefit of the tax\nfor 401kcheckbook?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:25:43]\nIt&#8217;s a really niche area, where there are really only a handful of true\nexperts, nationwide.&nbsp; that&#8217;s not an\nexaggeration. Now, there are many that promote this, but in terms of\nindividuals and companies that are really out there to help you, based on your\nunique scenario, you probably don&#8217;t even need all the fingers on one hand,&nbsp; to calculate that. There are overall in the\nspace probably about 70 different companies.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>But they\u2019re, almost without exception, their focus focuses\non giving you the paperwork,&nbsp; to get your\naccount set up, but not to try to advise you, and try to figure out what&#8217;s\ngonna be best for you, and making not getting the right setup, can be very\ncostly.&nbsp; The irony of this is,&nbsp; is that people that work with us can actually\nend up paying a lot less then they would pay to want it to some of the\ncompanies that are just giving them the piece of paper, and not really giving\nthem the type of individual attention that they need and deserve.&nbsp; So I would love to say that there are so many\noptions out there. But there really are very few, so there are other people in\nthe space where they have mutual respect, and admiration for them.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>I don&#8217;t think a podcast is the right place to mention names,\nbut there are not that many of them. That&#8217;s the truth. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#00D1B2\">Seyla: <\/span><\/b>[00:27:04]\nSo for someone who actually working as a full time and they already have a\nemployer&#8217;s sponsored 401K are they still allowed to open a 401k checkbook?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:27:16]\nSo they can definitely have, another retirement account and they can technically\nhave another 401k. There are no rules limiting the number of returns and\naccounts that you can have. &nbsp;But, there\nare other barriers or hurdles that they may encounter. So you can have an\nemployer 401k and obviously we don&#8217;t control that.&nbsp; We could set up your employer 401k to give it\nthe same type of control.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>&nbsp;But that&#8217;s probably\nnot going to happen. Definitely doable. Absolutely positively doable.&nbsp; if you want to talk to your employer and\ndiscuss it, we may be able to make it happen. Generally it will be a fit for a\nsmaller firm,&nbsp; here&#8217;s the deal, having a\nqualified retirement plan with employees certainly have a large number of\nemployees gets opens up the employer to a range of liabilities.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And if you give people the type of flexibility that we give them,\nright? So we have people that are investing in say cryptocurrency, right? And\nwe see many of them have done very well. But there they&#8217;re also people that\nmake missteps. Cryptocurrency is very volatile.&nbsp;\nand we&#8217;re not here to tell people you should do this, you shouldn&#8217;t do\nthis. We&#8217;re here to say, all right, you want to invest in cryptocurrency. We&#8217;re\ngoing to help you figure out the best retirement account to do that because\nthere are actually very cool stuff that you can do with retirement accounts and\ncryptocurrency. But if an employer lets an employee invest in cryptocurrency, and\nit tanks because of incredible volatility, the employer can open himself up to\nincredible liability, which they don&#8217;t want. So they&#8217;re really, employers are\nprimarily focused on protecting themselves from any type of liability that can\narise. So they want to keep everything plain vanilla so that nobody can\ncomplain to them and say, Oh, why you let me invest in.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Bitcoin, that you wanted to let me do that. That was a\nbreach of your fiduciary duty. So when this would work, if somebody has worked\nfor a small business where they have a handful of employees and they know each\nother well, and they all appreciate the value of alternative investments. It\ncan be a great fit.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So that being said as somebody who wants to sit up for\nthemselves, so we would have a discussion with them to figure out what would\nfit. Do we set up another 401k for you? Do we set up some sort of IRA for\nyou?&nbsp; Everybody is going to have a fit.\nThere&#8217;s nobody that does not have an account.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>That&#8217;s going to be the best fit for them. It&#8217;s just that the\nbest fit for Seyla may not be the best fit for Aileen.&nbsp; So everybody is their own gotta find what&#8217;s\ngonna be best for them. The type of obstacle you may encounter though, is can\nyou get your money out? So say you&#8217;ve got $200,000 in your company\u2019s 401k plan.\nAnd you have no other retirement accounts. Can we tap into that $200,000,&nbsp; for investing in real estate? It\ndepends.&nbsp; Money that was contributed to\nyour company 401k plan. If it was going to attribute it while you&#8217;re at that,\nwhile you were at that company, meaning it&#8217;s not a rollover, it&#8217;s not from a\nprior employer that you rolled into this current employer.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>You actually, the money went into the 401k as an initial contribution\nwhile you worked for this company.&nbsp;\nyou&#8217;re probably not going to be able to get that out until you&#8217;re 59 and\na half.&nbsp; there are some exceptions. But\nthat&#8217;s the rule of thumb.&nbsp; now there is\nactually right now, a little, a limited window of opportunity,&nbsp; because the cures act created something\ncalled a Corona virus related distribution,&nbsp;\nwhich many people qualify for.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And that enables you to pull out a hundred thousand dollars.\nSo generally money, the tax code did not allow you to access. From your\nretirement account is now accessible. So you could pull a hundred thousand\ndollars out.&nbsp; and then you have a couple\noptions of what you can do with that.&nbsp;\nbut you have the option of get out and then putting it into any type of\nstructure that we could set up for you and then you can put it into an\nalternative asset, hard money lending, real estate, equity, syndications,\nwhatever it is. That you are pursuing, in a retirement account that you\ncontrol. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#00D1B2\">Seyla: <\/span><\/b>[00:31:12]\nSo just to confirm with the 401K checkbook, you can actually invest it in any\ntype of assets or any type of investments or is there any limitation that our\nlisteners should know? <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:31:24]\nYes.&nbsp; But before I talk about\nlimitations, what I like to ask is, I love asking this question. Based on all\nthat we&#8217;ve discussed till now, does the tax code say that a 401k you&#8217;re\nqualified retirement time or plan or IRA can invest in real estate?<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:31:39]\nIt does not. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:31:40]\nit does not. You&#8217;re right.&nbsp; how do you guess?\nUsually we&#8217;d reach this point of the conversation people are like, yeah, of\ncourse. You just told us for last bit, last 30 minutes telling us that they can\ninvest in real estate.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Tax code says nothing about what you could invest in. Now\nwhat the tax code does say is, and there&#8217;s some variation here between the\ndifferent types of retirement accounts. So one thing that&#8217;s Off limits for all\nof these are collectibles.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Collectibles refers to antiques rugs, alcohol fine art,\nwhich many purchase as an investment, those are off limits to all retirement\naccounts. Life insurance is off limit to IRAs and HSA. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So collectibles off limits to everything, life insurance, to\nHSA and IRAs.&nbsp; now life insurance can be\nheld in a qualified retirement plan, lots of complex rules, but it&#8217;s doable\nwithin the rules.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Another thing to be aware of is S corporation stock. So it\ndoes not say anywhere in the retirement account rules that our retirement\naccount can not invest in S-corp stock. But in the S-corp rules, which is a\ncompletely different area of the tax code. It says that an S Corp cannot be\nowned by an IRA.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So if the IRA invest in an S-corp, nothing happens to the\nIRA, but that company is no longer an S-Corp for tax purposes. if an investor\nin an S Corp , qualified retirement plans that are rules a bit dicey, but there\nare instances where they can invest in S-Corp.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>&nbsp;So that&#8217;s one set out\nof things. what can you from a asset class perspective,&nbsp; what you can or can&#8217;t,&nbsp; any questions about that? No. And then\nthere&#8217;s another set of rules, which is not a, from an asset class perspective,\nbut it&#8217;s about who you can transact with. And so our set of rules that keep you\nand people that are close to you from transacting with your retirement account.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So you can control your retirement account, but it&#8217;s not,\nyou. And you can not do business with your retirement account. So again, you\ncan control it. You can write the checks and in direct the investments on\nbehalf of your retirement account, but you have to be very cautious. If you are\nin any way, a party to the transaction in your individual capacity.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>A lot of technical jargon there. but the idea is when you&#8217;re\nacting on behalf of retirement account, you&#8217;re like the trustee, you&#8217;re not\nacting as yourself, right? You&#8217;re you know, when a corporate officer in a\ncompany, They signed the checks. But they&#8217;re not signing the checks on behalf\nof themselves.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>They&#8217;re acting in their capacity as a representative of the\ncompany. As a corporate officer.&nbsp; when\nthey signed a personal check, they&#8217;ll write the signature looks the same, but\non a personal check, they&#8217;re signing it. And then their individual capacity,\nwhen they sign on behalf of the corporation, they&#8217;re signing in their capacity\nas an officer of the entity.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So when you&#8217;re doing business, when your IRA or 401k, QRP is\ntransacting, you should be signing, at, in your capacity as a trustee, as the\nperson that&#8217;s running the retirement account.&nbsp;\nthe moment you are as an individual. Are involved in the transaction, it\ngets dicey.&nbsp; so these are what we call\nthe self-dealing rules and they&#8217;re there to prevent any conflicts of interest.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>And to ensure that everything that you do is for the long\nterm savings and not to somehow give you current benefit today.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>So that&#8217;s what kind of people know to what their appetite\nand get them interested.&nbsp; but if the\nextent of the investor is knowledge, doesn&#8217;t their, either their knowledge\ndoesn&#8217;t go way beyond that. Or they&#8217;re not working with somebody that can guide\nthem through all the minutia, it can be actually be detrimental to have these\naccounts because a misstep can be very costly. And there are all sorts of\nlittle details,&nbsp; that can make a big\ndifference.&nbsp; so if you violate the rules,\nit can be jeopardized, deicing.&nbsp; people\nhave retirement accounts. I have a million dollars in them.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>&nbsp;A misstep there can\nbe very potentially be very costly.&nbsp; so\nyou want to make sure again, that you&#8217;re working with somebody that is not\nthere to give you the control of the money. give you that good feeling, but not\nreally looking out for your best interests. you want to work with somebody that\nmay tell you this is not for you based on what you&#8217;re trying to do.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Don&#8217;t do this or understand, here are the risks.&nbsp; Look at tax the same way you would approach\nan investment.&nbsp; There&#8217;s kind of risk\nreward, and sometimes things are clear. Sometimes things are unclear and it&#8217;s\nokay to take action in that gray zone provided you&#8217;re making an informed and\ndecision.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>But if people are sweeping things under the rug and not\npointing out. All right. You just ended a gray zone.&nbsp; If they&#8217;re not pointing that out to you, you\nmay be taking on risk that you would not otherwise take on.&nbsp; So you want to be making informed decisions.\nand then again, it comes back to funding.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>The industry is plagued with conflicts of interest. The\noverwhelming majority of companies,&nbsp;\npromoters and salespeople in the financial industry only get paid if you\nbuy their product.&nbsp; so they&#8217;re not in the\nmost objective position to tell you, Hey, this is not for you. We&#8217;ll some do\nit. Absolutely.&nbsp; but the challenge is\nfiguring out, alright, I might dealing with somebody that is really going to\nbe.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>Be honest and upfront with me or my dealing with somebody\nthat is going to deliberately conceal things from me. We&#8217;re going to be less\nthan a hundred percent transparent. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:37:06]\nAbsolutely. Especially when you&#8217;re working, when you&#8217;re working with someone\nwho&#8217;s trying to help you with your retirement hard earned retirement money, you\nwant to make sure that you trust them, that they&#8217;re going to do right by you. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:37:17]\nAbsolutely. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#00D1B2\">Seyla: <\/span><\/b>[00:37:18]\nso for your service and if someone, wanted to, set up this type of service,\nwhere do they go and how do they find you? <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:37:25]\nAll right. Excellent.&nbsp; <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>If they Google Bernard Reisz, that&#8217;s B ER N A R D R E I S Z.\nThey are going to find lots and lots of very helpful resources. And hopefully\nfrom those resources, it&#8217;ll take you on to further helpful resources and\nultimately find a lot of those haven\u2019t been able to put them all up.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>bernard@401kcheckbook.com or Google ResureFinancial, go to Resure\nLLC.&nbsp; We&#8217;ve put out lots of great info\njust like this one. I think this has been, particularly great.&nbsp; But there are so many resources. We try to\nmake this, freely available so that people there&#8217;s a greater awareness of both\nthe possibilities and the pitfalls.<o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#00D1B2\">Seyla:<\/span><span style=\"color:#DE2898\"> <\/span><\/b>[00:38:09] Sounds good. Thank you so much,\nBernard for taking the time out today and talking to us about 401K checkbook.\nWe really appreciate your time. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p>&nbsp;<b><span style=\"color:#FA8A3B\">Bernard: <\/span><\/b>[00:38:16] Seyla and Aileen, thank\nyou so much for hosting me. I&#8217;ve enjoyed this so much and do look forward to\nstaying in touch. <o:p><\/o:p><\/p><p><b><span style=\"color:#DE2898\">Aileen: <\/span><\/b>[00:38:23]\nThank you.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>PODCAST EPISODE SA007 | Investing in Real Estate Using Retirement Accounts and 401K Checkbook Bernard Reisz Bernard Reisz, is a CPA and is the founder of 401kCheckbook.com, which gives investors direct control of their tax-sheltered funds for real estate equity and debt opportunities using Checkbook Control IRAs, QRPs, Solo 401(k)s, and Checkbook Life Insurance.\u00a0 He\u2019s [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":1114,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"no-sidebar","site-content-layout":"page-builder","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"disabled","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"disabled","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"default","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"default","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1113","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcast"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.9 - 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